Samsung announces NX series camera system

[ATJ]

The adapters weigh essentially nothing. A few grams. The G1 weighs 380g. My OM 21mm weighs 250g. My Canon 5d body weighs 890g. The 17-40 is 475g. The 20mm prime is 405g (and not as good as the OM) You can probably guess where I am coming from with that.

Actually, no. I can't work out where you are going. The weight (or lack thereof) is irrelevant. Totally. It's the physical size.

You claimed that the benefit of the format was the camera was small, but the the physical size from the sensor to the pointy end of the lens will be exactly the same as it will be on a full SLR. The distance from the sensor to the back of the camera will be essentially the same. i.e. there is absolutely no advantage in the size of the camera+lens.

[gstark]

The adapters weigh essentially nothing. A few grams. The G1 weighs 380g. My OM 21mm weighs 250g. My Canon 5d body weighs 890g. The 17-40 is 475g. The 20mm prime is 405g (and not as good as the OM) You can probably guess where I am coming from with that.

Actually, no. I can't work out where you are going. The weight (or lack thereof) is irrelevant. Totally. It's the physical size.

You claimed that the benefit of the format was the camera was small, but the the physical size from the sensor to the pointy end of the lens will be exactly the same as it will be on a full SLR. The distance from the sensor to the back of the camera will be essentially the same. i.e. there is absolutely no advantage in the size of the camera+lens.

And he will be carrying more pieces of kit. Specifically, camera, plus at least one adapter for each lens mount type, plus each lens. No, you probably would not carry the lenses mounted to the adapters, because you need to fit front and rear lens caps. Still more stuff to carry, more bulk, more items, more weight. And more stuff to lose.

But we are getting away from the point, which is what the hell is the point of this camera. Michael's needs are important to Michael; that is not being questioned. What is being questioned is the need, and viability, for this camera. While Michael tries to present arguments in favour of why he might buy such a burdensome item, (but his arguments seem to fail all tests of logic) there seems to be no viable market for this camera in the first instance: it will still be a new, poorly supported format, with little to no glass - quality or otherwise available for it's target market.

Michael suggests an alternative market, but that is just a pissing in the wind market, and one which a major manufacturer would surely deem unsustainable for any consumer focussed product.

[photohiker]

The issue for me is actually not the bulk, it's the weight.

Actually, no. I can't work out where you are going. The weight (or lack thereof) is irrelevant. Totally. It's the physical size.

Irrelevant for you, or for me?

There are repeated assumptions about me and how I use photographic gear in this discussion that are not correct. For instance, that I would be mortified to manually focus a lens, or that I would be lost without AE. That I would choose carry multiple lenses of varying adapters, that there are no high quality small and light lenses.

Now that the discussion has degenerated into Michael this, and Michael that, I think it's time to leave it be as it has become personal and insulting.

Michael

[gstark]

There are repeated assumptions about me and how I use photographic gear in this discussion

No, there are no such assumptions. I have taken great pains to mention, on more than one occasion, that you are not the target market for this camera. I have taken great pains to mention, on more than one occasion, that the target market for this camera is not a person with your skillset. it is the PHDset. Please read what has been written, not you think you have read.

And in reading what has been written, might I respectfully suggest that you include reading what you, yourself, have written? In an earlier post in this thread, you stated the following ...

It doesn't really matter Gary, that Samsung has no premium lenses yet. What does matter is that the mount to film plane is very short, so just about any other lens should be usable on this camera with an appropriate adapter.

There you go, discussing the size!

But wait, there's more :

But then, I'm the guy who loved the Olympus Pen F and thought the baby Minox and Minolta were amazing, so no wonder the suggestion of DSLR quality in a smaller package interests me.

There you go, discussing the size again! I have taken the liberty of italicising and bolding several words.

But just to be certain, from the original post (not by you) ...

the NX series is designed to allow smaller and lighter bodies and lenses

...


Despite what you may think, this discussion is really about the camera, and you are, with respect, incidental to it. Please take a few moments to peruse the subject line; I see no mention of your name there.

Now that the discussion has degenerated into Michael this, and Michael that, I think it's time to leave it be as it has become personal and insulting.

The only person who has personalised this discussion is yourself, telling us how you might use this camera. That is all nice and well, but completely incidental to the purpose of the thread.

Unless, of course, you see yourself as being a vital component in the success (or otherwise) of this camera.

And Andrew has merely pointed out that your argument about the weight is largely irrelevant, as the primary supposed advantage of this camera is its small size. You agree that the adapters will be large and bulky, yet you don't want to accept that this runs counter to that initially stated advantage.

[ATJ]

Michael,

I cannot see where my comments have been either personal or insulting. I'm sorry that I missed your comment about weight. I thought you had said it was about the physical size.

OK, so it's about weight. Now, I only know about Nikon so I'll use Nikon for examples, I'm sure Canon have equivalent cameras if you are a Canon user.

A D60 weighs around 500g and will take all the same lenses that can be used on a larger Nikon dSLR. It has great IQ. If these new format cameras weighed nothing at all and the adapters weighed nothing at all, the most you could possibly save by going with the new format over a D60 is 500g - assuming you want to use the same lenses. To be honest, I can't see the value in saving 500g on pack weight. My body weight varies by as much as 1kg in a single day so 500g is going to disappear in the rounding. My camera pack weighs 8-9kg and I regularly carry it for long walks and short hikes. Shifting 500g would mean nothing. This is why I don't understand the value.

But, I guess we are all different, and if you can get value out of losing less than 500g from your pack weight, good luck to you.

[aim54x]

Hmmm I wonder how much one of these micro APS-C sized cameras would weigh, surely they would still be 300-400gm, so you really dont win on weight, unless your using a pancake lense that weighs substantially less than a normal lens.

That said, a NX will let you blend with the point and shoot crowd and not being a Nikon of Canon you lose the 'Pro' tag so people will relax a bit more when you take photos in public. I think it will be niche filler (just like the bridging cameras where these micro 4/3rds and micro APS-C cameras will challenge for market share I think). BUT the problem of good DEDICATED glass remains (would you shell out for quality dedicated glass if this is a secondary system?)

[photohiker]

dpreview interview revealing a few sketchy details, including K-Mount compatibility via adapter. (but no confirmation of the highly sought-after AF functions)

They're calling it a 'hybrid' camera. Form factor and design cued by extensive and international market research.

The market exists in three different form factors at the moment. One is the existing DLSR, second is compact, and hybrid is emerging. We will not abandon the DSLR market, we will just focus more on the hybrid form factor.

Release of the camera and several (m4/3rds sized) lenses scheduled for second half of 2009. Be interesting to see what it's like.

Michael

[gstark]

We will not abandon the DSLR market

Would anyone notice if they did?

Be interesting to see what it's like.

yawn.